Double Tap 357 Sig 115 Gr Nosler Hp Review

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1. I ordered 3 boxes of Double Tap Ammo. Everything I have read about it is positive. The ballistics are awesome. The velocity of Due south&W40 and the ft. lbs. of 45ACP in 9mm.

   9mm+P 115gr JHP 50rds. $36.95

   These loads are low flash. They are a great option for personal defense.

   Bullet : Remington JHP

   Ballistics : 115gr @ 1415fps / 511ft. lbs. from a G17.

   The tests with 4 layers of denim + "T" shirt material into ballistic gel showed average penetration of thirteen.5". 200 rounds fired into beefiness had them opening up from .068 to .080 and liquified the beef. What exercise y'all think?

   We accept been using Federal premium hydra-shox'due south just these pack a lot more punch.

2. I think they've switched from the Rem 115gr to the Barnes TAC solid copper hollowpoint bullet (same equally used in the Corbon DPX line, just the DT has virtually 80fps more velocity), oasis't they?

   In whatsoever case, with either bullet i would definitely agree that the DT rounds offering a heck of a lot more wallop than Hydrashok.

3. OK......am I missing something?

4. Thumbs upward!

   I've merely used Double Tap in 38spl and 357mag revolver ammo, simply information technology's acme shelf.

5. I use their 10mm ammo all the time. Great stuff.

6. 

   CWL Member

   Joined:

   Jan vi, 2003

   Letters:

   6,526

   Impressive velocity and cage energy, but 13.five" penetration is barely passing the recommended 12" minimum penetration standards set up by FBI ballistics, since 18" is optimal. So this is another bullet that flies fast & opens early.

   I have no issues with Double Tap, nor in their earnestness in wanting to manufacture an effective bullet, but yous should expect all handgun bullets to accept substandard operation against humans.

   Personally, I wouldn't even think a bullet is reliable for my pistol until I've fired 200+ rounds out of my personal SD/HD pistol. Ownership 3 boxes and depending on test firings into a side of beef isn't plenty for me to believe in a bullet.

7. Recently there have been some complaints about DT. The biggest have been getting Montana Gilt Bullets substituted for Aureate Dot or SXT, without mentioning the change. And ordering 200 grain bullets and actually getting 180 grain bullets.

   http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1178403#post14663326

   http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1174877

   http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?108135-Double-Tap-Barnes-offerings

   Other such complaints can be establish on well-nigh gun sites.

   Likewise some have questioned the actual chrono's vs stated speed of many rounds.

8. I think he pretty much has that corrected at present...he tells you exactly what bullet you are getting where possible....information technology seems he can't claim the gilded dot/speer name anymore and so that is reffered to as "Bonded Deffense" and has been largely unavailable lately...I have some in .45 from a couple months back...and they are good ole golden dots. And then there is the controlled expansion....at present these used to be Hornady XTP but I think in some calibers they may be his montana gold....which looks a lot similar a golden saber....only I'g not certain if that'southward what it is or that's just what it looks like...afterall winchester ranger LE HP's look a lot similar XTP's from the outside. Bullets tin look alike certainly.

   FWIW I have had first-class performance from what I've ordered...I oasis't tested it all nonetheless but what little I have has been accurate and consitently cycles 100% Personally I'd wait for him to come up dorsum out with the boot-butt 124gr GD load he used to have....seems subject to bullet availability. He's using a LOT of barnes and Noslers right now...I've actually found the Noslers very accurate and agree together well...the harder you push button them the ameliorate they expand....which is skillful...his loads push em Difficult! I hate to say it but I'd still bear 124gr GD+P from speer over a lighter wizz-bang load with a lesser bullet...even if I do like his ammo.

9. I recall that if I wanted to throw a 9mm round at top velocity, then I would just get a .357Sig pistol or a .357 magnum revolver.

10. Concluding summer I had the opportunity to fire 1000 rounds of double tap 9mm+p 124 gold dot, through two guns: a sig 228 and a glock xix. Needless to say, the glock only got 200 of the rounds.

    Peachy ammo, in my opinion, after that test. Authentic, and it felt consequent.

11. Okay, so you had ordered 150 rounds of Double Tap and and then proceeded with a exam involving 200 rounds?

    Are these results y'all've included a exam that someone else has done?

12. Just FYI... DT does not manufacture any bullets. They manufacture ammunition that uses tertiary party bullet's from various makers.

13. So you don't similar information technology because it exceeds the FBI requirements?

    Well, that'due south interesting.

    I consider 18" to be excessive penetration in an urban defense load.

    A .357sig holds less bullets, and the ammo is more coin and less unremarkably bachelor. A .357 magnum is not uniform with autoloaders.

    9mm+P+ gives you the best of both worlds without having to sacrifice compact size, capacity, or your autoloader.

14. Snowdog Quote:
    I ordered 3 boxes of Double Tap Ammo.

    Quote:
    200 rounds fired into beef...

    Okay, so y'all had ordered 150 rounds of Double Tap then proceeded with a examination involving 200 rounds?

    Are these results you've included a test that someone else has done?

    Snowdog, I never said I tested these . I said "I ordered 3 boxes", (I haven't fifty-fifty got them all the same for cryin' out loud). Read the OP before y'all start flappin' your fingers. Subsequently 2400 and some posts y'all should have better thought of proper manners. Remember, we are all on the aforementioned side! Just sayin', non trying to make enemies here.
    Well, after visiting your folio and looking at your posts I believe I may have jumped the gun a little. I got the impression you were kinda a "[email protected]$$" but your posts paint a differant picture. Seem to me a good guy. Sorry, I could delete this but experience I owe you lot an apoligy for jumpin' on you. No hard feelings, I hope!

    Terminal edited: Aug 11, 2010

15. If I may interject, information technology slightly exceeds the FBI'southward minimum penetration requirement. xviii" is considered optimum for homo targets by the FBI, and more effective than 12" or 13.v" (keeping in mind that any load you select volition be a serial of compromises, of class).I think it's a fair estimate of what it takes to penetrate virtually whatsoever human being torso of any size from almost any angle, thereby maximizing a bullet's shot placement potential. We take to exist sure of what's around and behind our targets regardless of how much a bullet ordinarily penetrates.

16. If you exceed the requirement, you exceed the requirement. I think 12-fifteen" is ideal, personally. 18" is non considered optimum by the FBI, it is considered to be the upper end of their requirement.

    Very few modern defense rounds penetrate 18", including in .357 sig. 5.56mm doesn't fifty-fifty penetrate that deep in gelatin.

    Past the way, the almost legendary handgun stopping circular of all fourth dimension barely penetrated ten" in FBI gel tests. The Fed/Rem .357 Magnum 125gr SJHP.

17. 

    CWL Member

    Joined:

    January 6, 2003

    Messages:

    6,526

    
    What are your qualifications?

    Do you understand the purpose of penetration studies with handgun bullets? Information technology is to measure how much tissue can exist potentially destroyed by bullet wounding channels. The deeper the wound, the more tissue harm leading to blood-loss incapacitation. Making the hole itself doesn't incapacitate an aggressor.

    Why go for minimum?

    Here's the FBI Ballistic Exam Protocol:

    FBI Academy Handgun Wounding and Effectiveness Manual:
    Here 'southward another quote yous should consider:
    And please don't compare rifle bullets to handgun bullets.

18. Wait at plenty test information and what I see is pretty well any load in a decent chambering where weight is centered around that chambering'due south residual-point -and loaded to reasonable levels with decent premium HP's =pretty much you are going to become 12-xviii" in bare ballistic jello and open up well (cause it's bare jello and shooting it into water is almost the just affair that will do better at making Anything expand well) yous are going to get xvi-20+" in denim covered jello and expand less notably. Y'all can run into it again and once more in 9,.xl and .45 and the bigger the caliber the closer the results for a given weight. Most of these tests actually practice more to bear witness the very poor performing bullets and weights and simply signal out that loads further abroad from the balance-bespeak of a given chambering don't piece of work every bit well as those nearly it.

    It's non anything y'all should base your ammo picks on completely...because information technology sometimes makes lighter faster loads wait similar they ought to exist more reliable stoppers....like in .45....where I think most folks realize a 230gr HP going slower is really more than what that round is all virtually. Double-tap seems to go for the "speed is male monarch" aproach...and in some rounds -I like that! (124gr. in 9mm equally fast as you can load it with a GD thanks....and in .40 I like the light fast 135gr loads...and theirs rocks) In .45 I carry 230gr and their GD circular is faster than information technology needs to be clocking nigh 1000FPS out of a G21...but it expands improve for it and in that gun the added recoil is non that notable (you can feel it...but information technology doesn't slow things down much on follow-ups) in a 1911 I think I'd preffer the standard speer load a little slower. It is a great woods-walking circular though...every bit is the nuclear hot 185gr load clocking almost 1200fps from a 21SF and presumably almost 600 pound of whoop-down. Though I'll tell you what...if it was a 300+ pound hog trying to eat me up I'd rather have a standard presure 230gr bonded speer....fifty-fifty at just 850-900 fps! Yet in 9mm you couldn't give me a 147gr load! -no affair how hot!!...it's just out of residuum for what that round is designed for.

    (in truth I'll accept my .44 with 240gr JHP XTP's doing darn near 1400 or a hard bandage 240gr anywhere from 1250-1350! Merely in town -the divergence between a 9mm and .40 or a .45 loaded as prescribed higher up...I seriously incertitude would make much if any difference in a deffensive shooting. If ballistics tables and jello tests where really "where information technology was at" -nosotros'd all yet be packing .357's and .44's! All you can exercise is pick ane of the best bullets in a weight that suits the chambering and feeds and shoots well in your gun in a loading that feeds and shoots well in your gun. And ballistics tests and tables help...but they are simply one way to look at the choices..one piece of the puzzle if you lot volition...not a buyers guide!

20. Is this a proficient fourth dimension to bring up that about .380 SD rounds penetrate 12" in gel?

21. All of these tests were done using ten% ballistic gelatin provided by Vyse gelatin using all FBI protocols and 4 layers of denim and two layers of lite cotton T-shirt in front of the gelatin.

    DoubleTap 9mm+P Penetration / expansion

    115gr. Golden Dot JHP @ 1415fps - 12.00" / .lxx"
    124gr. Golden Dot JHP @ 1310fps - 13.25" / .70"
    147gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - fourteen.00" / .66"

    DoubleTap .twoscore S&W

    135gr. Nosler JHP @ 1375fps - 12.10" / .72"
    155gr Gilt Dot JHP @ 1275fps - xiii.00" / .76"
    165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1200fps - 14.0" / .seventy"

    DoubleTap .357 Sig

    115gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1550fps - 12.25" / .71"
    125gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1450fps - 14.five" / .66"
    147gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1250fps - xiv.75" / .73"

    DoubleTap .357 Magnum

    125gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1600fps - 12.75" / .69"
    158gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - xix.0" .56"

    DoubleTap .45ACP

    185gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1225fps - 12.75" / .82"
    200gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - xiv.25" / .88"
    230gr Aureate Dot JHP @ 1010fps - fifteen.25" / .95"

    Ballistic gelatin test results : 10mm Motorcar [Annal] - THR

22. Even if you exceed the minimum requirement by 1.five", as in the instance we're looking at, my indicate was that ane tin can even so practise better, at least co-ordinate to the FBI (CWL has that issue well covered). Penetration functioning keeps getting better up to and including 18", later which it is estimated that practically every bad guy will have been penetrated completely. 17" would be slightly inferior, and 19" would exist a slight waste matter but not inferior equally long as expansion isn't compromised substantially.

    The reason that the FBI has both an optimum and minimum requirement is that their test protocol takes into business relationship the varying depth of penetration that whatsoever given load will reach when passing through various barriers. If they could become a load that gives them a perfect 18" in every case, they'd certainly take it, but annihilation that gives them at least 12" in every case (and more than in some) would still exist worth considering.

    And you lot're completely entitled to your opinion, equally nosotros all are. Information technology simply differs from that of the FBI, that's all.It may exist an upper bound of what is useful, but in this case performance keeps getting better until that upper bound is reached, afterward which it declines non because of penetration but the reduced expansion that is implied.That'due south true enough, which is why they selected the Ranger Bonded/PDX1 180 grain .40 Due south&W load, which in the near common cases (four layers of denim and heavy cloth) penetrated an average of 21.eight" and xix", respectively, in their tests. Expansion was still pretty decent, and of course information technology penetrated at least 12" in every examination. I use the very same load for the same reasons they do.Well, at that place's legend and then in that location's measured, demonstrated performance. Apparently actual functioning in homo targets is going to be subject to many unpredictable variables, and is very difficult to analyze too, but controlled, calibrated gelatin tests at to the lowest degree tell us how different loads compare to one some other so that we can meet and decide for ourselves which would give us the greatest odds of success overall.

23. Of the test results I have, most .380 ACP JHPs penetrate a scrap less (and with surprising expansion), although Federal Hydra-Shok does get about 12" with approximately 51% expansion. That's practiced performance for .380 ACP, although the caliber is too capable of penetrating around 22" with FMJ bullets. The FBI would say that the Hydra-Shok load meets their minimum penetration standard for law enforcement ammunition (non counting their unabridged protocol necessarily, simply the basic penetration aspect in the absenteeism of hard barriers), but information technology'southward telling that the 10mm Motorcar and .45 ACP loads they near seriously considered afterward deciding to move away from 9mm had average penetration depths of 17.ix" and 19.95", and that'south with expansion, of course (their current .40 Southward&W load, equally described in my last mail service, is comparable). Information technology would be interesting to know whether they'd cull a JHP or FMJ load if they were forced to use .380 ACP pistols. Personally, I'd probably choose FMJ in this caliber, favoring penetration. I don't know what kind of terminal performance to expect from loads from the likes of DoubleTap and Buffalo Bore, and I prefer to use standard loadings anyway (well, I do have a box of the DoubleTap .40 S&West hard-cast load because I know what to expect from it, and I have some other hot loads just for fun and variety, simply I don't use them for defence against humans).

    Of grade, it probably goes without maxim that the reason the FBI is invoked so often when discussing these issues is that they're the main source of the 12" penetration standard, which in turn is often misunderstood (of course, because everything in life is always so easy and smooth ).

    Last edited: Aug 12, 2010

24. Problem is DT ammo doesn't know how to properly evaluate ballistic results and can't even measure out bullet expansion correct with the industry standard.

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